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  1. Member
      0 points
    I only see 1 need to gief
  2.  
    Member
    • CommentAuthorD-bus
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    Just gonna wait for future loc tests, some of these changes are just goofy.
  3.  
    Member
    • CommentAuthorD-bus
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    WomboCombo125:
    I only see 1 need to gief


    I was kinda confused too. I read up and I guess he can't combo into Greenhand anymore, lp spd nerf, and EX greenhand has longer startup. I think thats right. Makes it harder to close the gap vs his already bad matchups.
  4.  
    KICK THE TREE
    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013 edited
      0 points
    not comboing into ex GH is the most terrible change ever.

    now even if he does close the distance he can't reset the situation meaning that getting 1 knockdown isn't death.. like it was in vanila/super.

    I can get gief to 50% with so many characters then gief will get in, one combo. then if i guess right i'm easily out. Then i win. But with knockdown to greenhand it's SOOO HARD to not get a reset situation and his mixups are BRUTAL. not being able to combo is really terrible because now he can't really put me in a situation if he confirms something like s.LK the best he can do is combo LP GH for -2... at least in AE he gets +1 from EX... TERRRIBLE for gief.

    Currently in AE rog vs gief is 5-5 and if ANYTHING slightly favored to gief. But skill matchup for sure.

    After these changes i would say it's 5.5-4.5 to rog or even 6-4. I'd put blanka vs gief at like 6-4 now as well or worse potentially. Depends on all of blankas changes.
  5.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    Characters that worry me right now.

    Makoto
    Oni
    Adon
    Balrog
    Sagat
    Claw

    can't speak for new characters really.
  6.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    D-bus:
    WomboCombo125:
    I only see 1 need to gief


    I was kinda confused too. I read up and I guess he can't combo into Greenhand anymore, lp spd nerf, and EX greenhand has longer startup. I think thats right. Makes it harder to close the gap vs his already bad matchups.


    it's not a gap closing issue. It's when he does close the gap he has no major ways to restart his mixup game. Like he could in vanilla and super. Because of this once he makes it in it's way harder to keep them down because he has no positive mixup situation. Vanilla/super gives him KD. And in recent versions he's +1... now the best he can do in a combo is -2..... since he can't combo EX.
  7. Member
    • CommentAuthorMr1one
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      1 point
    Foxisquick:
    not comboing into ex GH is the most terrible change ever.

    now even if he does close the distance he can't reset the situation meaning that getting 1 knockdown isn't death.. like it was in vanilla/super.

    Not to mention that delay wake up really hurts gief as well. So even if he lands an SPD or EX Green Hand, not only is it hard for him to put them back in the same situation but now he doesn't even get a guaranteed set up after it.
  8.  
    Rip the Jacker
    • CommentAuthorRecon
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      1 point
    Adon worries you? why haha. they gave him nothing and took from him a lot of his offensive tools..based off the changes...whoooooo over head is +4 vs standing opponents....exactly what you want ..and overhead that is better when the opp is standing..haha.
  9.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    Recon:
    Adon worries you? why haha. they gave him nothing and took from him a lot of his offensive tools..based off the changes...whoooooo over head is +4 vs standing opponents....exactly what you want ..and overhead that is better when the opp is standing..haha.


    Sure. I feel and still feel that Adon is top tier in this game. He's in the same group as fei long is for sure. So you either put him in A+ tier or S+ tier. It changes on a monthly basis. Top players go back and forth about this all the time. Adon is a monster. So if you look at his changes compared to the other top tier you see less impact on how his game could be played.

    Lets look at xian's tier list, the evo champ. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOQ_7SwCcAAdvIt.png:large His top 7 is the same as most everyone's top 7.

    fei long
    cammy
    akuma
    adon
    sakura
    yun
    ibuki

    If you compare changes between those guys you're gonna see some serious nerfs to everyone except adon.

    -Jaguar Kicks now do 130 damage on Light/Medium (down from 140), and 120 on Heavy (down from 130).

    No frame adjustments here. Still the same move, works exactly the same.

    - Air Jaguar Kick chip damage halved, regular damage on all of them is -10.

    No frame adjustments here. Still the same move, works exactly the same.

    - Far Standing Heavy Kick does 120 damage, is now 1 hit only.

    Nerf. Annoying nerf, this is pretty important to his game.

    - Opponent hasn't stood up yet if he does Forward Throw -> Forward Jump (meaning he no longer has a safejump from a regular throw, I assume?)

    - It is listed that his "Jutting" has a better hitbox, which is very strange indeed, considering this move is a move he had in the Alpha series, but does not have in SF4.
    EDIT: Apparently his Jutting from Alpha is his Close Heavy Kick right now, so his Close Heavy Kick should have a better hitbox now. Thanks to Doopliss for this information.

    - Forward+MP is now +3 instead of +4 when hitting a standing opponent.

    - Jaguar Revolver is now easier to get a full animation on.


    The rest of the changse have no impact to his game. You haven't seen a change to his 3 frame moves, he still has + frame on instant jag kick. Jag kick still breaks armor, he can still fadc etc....

    Lets compare this to the other characters..

    Fei Long
    best low in the game is now 4 frames... Huge impact...
    Rekkas all shorter. Can't be used as well as a poke anymore at max distances.
    Tenshin cannot be cancelled from s.LP, and has more recovery. Fei long could command throw so well and now it's weaker in frames and how you can use it.

    Cammy
    c.LK no longer a chain AND it's 4 frames. HUGE nerf.
    c.HP is now +5 and not +7. You can't do c.HP c.MK anymore. BIG BIG nerf, nerf on being able to ultra off of CH and also being able to get solid combos from a confirm air attack. You'll have to rely on cs.MP and sometimes cs.HP which is a damgae/stun impact.
    Dive kick has more recovery. Pressure game nerfed more. Big nerfs

    Akuma
    c.HK to ultra doesn't work. Not the biggest nerf, but that was bullshit.
    B.Air hado more recovery. Easier to punish.
    Cannot FADC HP upper on 2nd hit. Big nerf this was greatly used in blockstrings. Ask Gnarr he is not pleased with this.
    Invinc on shoryu not a huge deal, still nerf

    Don't want to hit everyone on the list. But peopl have had actual mechanical changes to the frames or how a move works. Adon has only been impacted on damage, his move still works exactly as it did before. If they told me that cammy was going to recieve a damage nerf to c.HP and a damage nerf to dive kicks i'd be fine with it, cuz now she can still play the same as before. But that's not the case.

    TLDR: The top tier got nerfs to frames and properties, while adon took a hit mainly to damage and 1 normal. His nerfs are far less then the other high tier characters. Which is why he scares me.
  10.  
    Rip the Jacker
    • CommentAuthorRecon
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    the standing HK is the biggest nerf. that was his main threat to discourage FA. now ppl are just going to bait the jagga kick..back dash and it'll probably be painful for adon. rog getting buffs is going to give him an even tougher time. since now he has no answer for armored rush rush punches..except throw maybe. Cutting a move's damage in half is huge. makes no sense to me. why is a special..doing less damage than his jump heavies? Jagga revolver seems to be the only buff depending on how often it actually goes to full animation... you'll see it a lot more.

    i find it interesting that he's always at the top of ppl's list but only one person in the world can use him. I guess you can count wong too but i wouldn't
  11.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    The reason, and i've asked a few top players this. Is that anyone who plays adon finds fei to be way easier to play. Adon is hard to play. Lots of requirements when you can just play fei instead. But they play very very similar.

    Yeah i mean you're right those are nerfs. But if i told you that c.MP on adon loses frames on block/hit? Or if i told you his c.HK has 1 frame slower startup? Those would be killer to him. But everything he does and how he plays is intact. This reminds me of your problem with cammy losing instant dive kick. It was a big mechanical change that you felt wouldn't allow you to play her the way you wanted. with these changes you can still play adon the same. The changes on the other top tier like fei/etc those are pretty significant.
  12. Member
      0 points
    I didn't know he couldn't combo into ex green hand so now I do feel bad for gief. His pokes seem to have gotten buffed tho
  13.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    WomboCombo125:
    I didn't know he couldn't combo into ex green hand so now I do feel bad for gief. His pokes seem to have gotten buffed tho


    Yeah at first didn't realize it either. Stik pointed it out to me. It's a terrible nerf. Character is junk now.

    The on the other hand they buff balrog like ridiculous LOL.
  14. b27
    • CommentAuthorSeventy2B
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    I'm reserving judgement until the American location tests and snakeeyes can get his hands on it... Reports are disturbing though, some reported that gief can't even confirm into any strength gh off lights... If true, what happened to gief being the combo grappler??
  15.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 25th 2013
      0 points
    Seventy2B:
    I'm reserving judgement until the American location tests and snakeeyes can get his hands on it... Reports are disturbing though, some reported that gief can't even confirm into any strength gh off lights... If true, what happened to gief being the combo grappler??


    Snake told me as well that it's the first test but he thinks these are all huge nerfs. Like you said lets wait because these changes don't mean they are final. But i don't care whoever gets their hand on it. Can't combo into GH? time for T.hawk.
  16.  
    FlatLine
      0 points
    Womp womp gief got nerfed :D
  17. b27
    • CommentAuthorSeventy2B
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2013
      2 points
    Foxisquick:
    But i don't care whoever gets their hand on it. Can't combo into GH? time for T.hawk.


    More like Hugo. He looks interesting from the vids I've seen. All the vids I've seen of him he's getting bodied, but no one seems to be playing him right either. His forward dash is pretty quick for a grappler, yet no one is fadc through fireballs.

    Pro One:
    Womp womp gief got nerfed :D


    I'll still win tournaments with him :D

    Remember the game is only 60% complete. The rest of the 40% will come from user feedback from location tests. There will be American location tests and snakeeyes, ultra David, and other gief players will get to play it and will be able to voice their thoughts about the changes. The sky isn't falling....yet
  18.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2013
      1 point
    Also i mean why would anyone play ryu now? Besides a slightly better fireball game and a few different normals i can't think of a major reason.
  19.  
    Rip the Jacker
    • CommentAuthorRecon
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2013
      0 points
    Initial reports on Rolento via halfro...are rolento is ass haha. i'm hoping that changes in the next few months.
  20.  
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    • CommentAuthorFoxisquick
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2013
      0 points
    Balrog so sick. Started to play him even more now that i've seen these changes. Character gonna be op!!!